Transparency data

PABEW meeting minutes, 27 January 2021

Updated 2 April 2024

Applies to England and Wales

Police Advisory Board For England & Wales

123rd meeting, 27 January 2021

Members present via video conference

Independent Chair

Elizabeth France

PABEW Secretariat

Afsana Begum

National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC)

Matt Jukes

David Paul

Kevin Courtney

Police Federation of England and Wales (PFEW)

John Partington

Karen Pinfold (in attendance)

Police Superintendents’ Association (PSA)

Dan Murphy

Chief Police Officers’ Staff Association (CPOSA)

Lisa Winward

Shabir Hussain

Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC)

Andrew Tremayne

Home Office (HO)

Frances Clark

Harriet Mackinlay

Emma Plummer

College of Policing (CoP)

Nicole Higgins

Judith Whitaker

Sandy Purewal

Independent Office of Police Complaints (IOPC)

Steve Oakley

Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue (HMICFRS)

Alex Hill

Mark Byers

Welcome and apologies

1. The Chair welcomed members to the quarterly meeting.

Minutes of the meeting 29 October 2020

2. Minutes of the previous quarterly meeting were agreed. Action Point 1: Secretariat to publish finalised minutes of 29 October on webpage.

Matters arising and action log

3. The Chair went through the action log of 29 October meeting, which has been updated in the light of the discussion. Key points discussed were:

Action Point 3 (NPCC’s roadmap in relation pay and pensions) – David Paul (NPCC) said he would have clarity on the work expected in relation to pay and pensions over the coming weeks and would circulate a document as soon as it was ready.

4. The chair then discussed outstanding action points from previous meetings. Key points discussed were:

Outstanding Action Point 2 from 29 January 2020 (Factual statement on the pension position) – Nicole Higgins said advice had been provided to CoP on some wording, agreed between HO and NPCC, now added to their guidance. It had been published and CoP considered the action complete. As staff associations had not seen the revised wording it was agreed that it would be shared with members. Action Point 2: CoP to share updated guidance on re-joiners with members. Any comments to be provided to NPCC (Kevin Courtney & David Paul).

Outstanding Action Point 1 from 26 March (Police attestation) – Harriet Mackinlay (HO) said the proposed changes were still on the HO list for review. PFEW pointed out that as magistrates have, for a number of years, been able to act anywhere in England and Wales [s7 Courts Act 2003] the changes to cut the link between a police attestation and the area in which the oath was sworn were overdue.

Updates from College of Policing (CoP)

Code of Ethics

5. There were concerns raised at the previous PABEW about the status of the Code of Ethics, following a Court of Appeal decision which appeared to judge behaviour against the Code of Ethics rather than the Misconduct Regulations. The Chair wrote to Mike Cunningham (CoP) and a response was received which had been circulated to PABEW.

6. Marcus Griffiths (CoP) took the view that the Court of Appeal findings at paragraph 42, did make clear that the Misconduct Regulations and not the Code of Ethics set the standard against which behaviour was to be judged.

7. John Partington (PFEW) said that PFEW remained concerned that the potential conflict between the Code of Ethics and the Professional Standards of Behaviour set out in regulations had affected the judgment, which they were challenging on appeal. Dan Murphy (PSA) shared concern and suggested that the Home Office should make a stronger statement about the precedence the Misconduct Regulations should have. He also questioned what mandate the IOPC had to unilaterally pursue the legal action that had created this change and whether it was a strategy the Government supported and if all the consequences had been considered. John Partington undertook to write to the Chair ahead of the next Discipline Sub-Committee.

8. While there could be no discussion of the ongoing case Frances Clark (HO) said she would take away concerns that it could risk set a difficult precedent in terms of the relationship between the Code of Ethics and Misconduct Regulations.

Action Point 3: Frances Clark to report the level of concerns to Home Office (PIU) about the risk of the case referred to setting a precedent in terms of the relationship between the Code of Ethics and misconduct regulations.

Action Point 4: Code of Ethics matter to be on the agenda for the next Discipline Sub-Committee meeting in April.

Revised ‘Guidance on Placements of Police Officer and Staff outside of their home force (Secondments)’

9. As a result of discussions at the previous PABEW on the Secondments’ Guidance, a small working group had been set up to look at how to review the guidance and best ways to take it forward.

10. Following this, Sandy Purewal (CoP) offered a preliminary re-draft of the guidance. In line with the last PABEW minutes she had renamed the guidance: ‘Guidance on placements of police officers and staff outside of their home force (secondments)’. The Home Office original comments remained throughout the document and previous comment from PFEW were taken into account.

11. No new comments had been received from the HO but those received from Mary Smith at HMICFRS had been incorporated. Sections 2.13 and 2.14 were pertinent to the existing issues facing CoP and had been amended.

12. While the revised draft had been reviewed by Judith Whitaker: Head of HR, Nicky Bayley: Director of Enabling Services at CoP it was recognised that more work needed to be done involving the staff associations, HO and HMRCFRS as well as ensuring advice had been taken from Home Office Advisory Lawyers (HOLA) and HMRC. Dan Murphy (PSA) raised the question as to whether the PABEW was seeking to have an agreement, no agreement or regulatory change? If it was to be an agreement, then there needed to be consensus and much more involvement/engagement with the staff associations. The alternatives were for the Home Office to put in place regulations or for each secondment to be individually negotiated.

13. There remained some fundamental concerns about the status of the guidance. It had originated from PABEW and was intended to apply to all bodies receiving police officers. The Chair made clear that whether the receiving body was a member of PABEW was not relevant to the advisory role of the Board which sought to achieve consistency and would look to see receiving bodies sign up to any revised document.

14. Detailed comments had been shared in correspondence, but the key question was to determine the way forward. There needed to be agreement for current placements and a wholesale review of the guidance for the long term. Mark Byers (HMICFRS) supported the proposal for a review to give clarity and consistency for employers, receiving bodies, officers and staff associations. He suggested that due to the employment status of police officers, there was an unhelpful interface with guidance from the civil service commissioners which he pointed out needed to be addressed.

15. Harriet Mackinlay (HO) recognised that placements had changed over time. She would engage with Home Office HR to see how they interpreted the relationship between civil service requirements and police employment terms. Further, she accepted that the HO was best placed to chair a further ad hoc working group to consider how the work identified should be taken forward, splitting it into long and short term actions and reporting back to PABEW on progress. Action Point 5: HO to arrange an ad hoc meeting to decide how best to take forward Secondment’s Guidance agreement in the short term and development of long-term revision of guidance on placements.

Police Pensions: UK Police Pensions Consultative Forum & Scheme Advisory Board

16. The combined meeting was held on 11 January 2021. Key points covered:

Home Office comms package

17. The package would be aimed to address issues which might be leading to ‘opt-out’ it would provide information for new recruits and a detailed overview of the value and benefits of the police pension scheme. Once the package had been cleared, HO would share it with NPCC for initial comments and thereafter a finalised version would be shared with the SAB and published on the webpage. Action Point 6: HO to share drafts Comms Package with the SAB.

Timetable and progress of HMT consultation response

18. The timeline for a response was a matter for HMT. HO said they were expecting the response in early February and would inform all members. An ad-hoc SAB meeting would be held after the response is published [currently planned for 10 February].

Immediate detriment

19. SAB members had raised concerns on the immediate detriment guidance which were being considered by the Home Office.

Management of pensions remedy process

20. Kevin Courtney (NPPC) said NPCC had funding to strengthen their central resources to provide support during the remedy period and thereafter. NPCC would be working with the HO to agree MoU of their respective roles.

21. The management of the process would give rise significant amount of work for those involved and the SAB would have an important role to play in supporting the remedy management, scheme managers and commenting on secondary legislation.

Timetable and progress of cost cap

22. The SAB had been expecting communication from HMT in January to look at the approach to the next valuation; nothing had so far been received.

Exit Payments Consultation Response

23. Members argued the proposal from the Government in the response to the consultation made clear that pension commutation payments paid to police officers were seen as pension payments. If exit payments are so defined, then they should come from HMT and not from the police budget.

Injury on Duty and Ill Health Retirement

24. A paper written by PFEW had been circulated to members outlining practical solutions, that do not require legislative changes to achieve more consistency. Staff Associations reported time, money and effort pursuing claims on behalf of its members in respect of Injury Benefit (IB) awards and ill-health retirement (IHR) pensions were increasing.

There was agreement from SAB members that this was a priority. David Paul (NPCC) said they were working with forces to establish a basis of action first and would liaise with staff associations too. NPCC recognised it was a long-standing issue.

Discipline Sub-Committee

25. The PABEW Discipline Sub-Committee met on 21 January 2021. Key points covered:

Misconduct outcomes guidance

26. The Sub-Committee had raised concerns about the case law references within the guidance which was being reviewed by the CoP. The Chair reported that Iain Raphael (CoP) had now met with PSA and PFEW representatives and consensus had been reached that the case law would remain as it was with an additional paragraph making clear that it was there to underpin the guidance but was not exhaustive. The Chair had received an invitation to meet with Iain Raphael to look at the longer-term approach; this would be picked up by the incoming Chair.

27. The precedence of guidance was discussed, and it was confirmed that while there might be guidance from a variety of sources it should be complementary and statutory guidance would always take precedence.

LQCs chairing misconduct panels and the NALQC’s proposal for immunity to be provided by legislation

28. The Sub-Committee had noted that a form of indemnity wording had now been agreed which the NALQC regarded as a satisfactory stop gap but that they would continue to press for a legislative solution. John Bassett (NALQC) had said that they had agreed with the APCC that the present indemnity was for six months and would be reviewed and renewed if needed, pending a legislative change.

Home Office legislation update

29. A paper was tabled for information and discussion showing forthcoming legislative changes falling within the terms of reference of the PABEW and the Police Consultative Forum (PCF).

30. Emma Plummer (HO) reported the consultation on the Parental Bereavement Leave determination had closed on 7 December. It was currently with HO lawyers following comments they had received.

31. At the PCF, it had been agreed to consider the equality perspective of honoraria and to see what data were available in relation to federated ranks. David Paul (HO) said this was under review.

32. The Maternity Pay and Adoption Pay changes took effect from 4 January; leave for pay had been extended from 18 to 26 weeks. This had been positively received but Matt Jukes (NPCC) said it had also triggered conversations on maternity and adoption support leave arrangements, which NPCC would look at over the next year.

33. The consultation on Targeted Variable Pay (TVP) and increases in bonus payment had begun on 21 January for 6 weeks.

Any other business/Date of next meeting

34. The next quarterly meeting was scheduled on 28 April 2021.

Presentation for PABEW Chair

35. It was Elizabeth France’s final PABEW meeting as Chair. Her second term ends on 12 February. Members made a presentation to her and the Policing Minister, Kit Malthouse, joined the meeting to thank her, on behalf of the Home Office, Home Secretary and policing partners for the achievements of the last 7 years.

Tables of actions

Action point	Actions	Date of the meeting	Who/date to be completed by	Status - to be updated and recirculated before the next meeting
1	Secretariat to publish finalised minutes of 29 October on webpage.	27 January 2021	Secretariat	Completed. See PABEW meeting minutes, 29 October 2020.
2	CoP to share updated guidance on re-joiners with members. Any comments to be provided to NPCC (Kevin Courtney & David Paul).	27 January 2021	College of Policing	Completed. This was shared with the PABEW later with SAB on 14 April. The matter is on the quarterly agenda for discussion.
3	Frances Clark to report the level of concerns to Home Office (PIU) about the risk of the case referred to setting a precedent in terms of the relationship between the Code of Ethics and misconduct regulations.	27 January 2021	Home Office	Completed
4	Code of Ethics matter to be on the agenda for the next Discipline Sub-Committee meeting in April.	27 January 2021	Secretariat	Completed. PFEW & PSA letter sent to Chair on 5 February 2021 ahead of DSC meeting. The matter was on the DSC agenda.
5	HO to arrange an ad hoc meeting to decide how best to take forward Secondment’s Guidance agreement in the short term and development of long-term revision of guidance on placements.	27 January 2021	Home Office	Completed. A meeting was held on 4 May. An update will be given at the quarterly meeting.
6	HO to share drafts Comms Package with the SAB.	27 January 2021	Home Office	Completed

Action point	Outstanding action points from previous meetings	Date of the meeting	To be completed by	Status
1	Home Office to take matters relating to police attestation further with Home Office policy lead.	26 March 2020	Home Office.	Ongoing. Harriet Mackinlay updated members it was being kept under review.
3	NPCC to produce a roadmap of the work expected in relation to pay and pensions up until 2022.	29 October 2020	NPCC	Ongoing. Work is ongoing and would be circulated as soon as ‘roadmap’ completed.